news

[stijn263]

Is the news page meant to be entirely blank ?

[jaap]

It's not blank for me.

[Tommy137]

[stijn263]

Ah, then it's probably my old browser (IE6) that's causing trouble again.

[daniel.is.fischer]

Ever considered upgrading to Firefox, Opera ...?

[Georg]

... or IE7?

[xan]

Looks like there's a typo in the June 23 news:

We hope that you will appreciate how hard the team work to produce these problems that we all enjoy on a weekly basis and I think you will agree that a well earned rest is fully deserved.

Change "work" to "works" and add a comma after "basis".

[BjornEdstrom]

Looks like there's a typo in the June 23 news:

We hope that you will appreciate how hard the team work to produce these problems that we all enjoy on a weekly basis and I think you will agree that a well earned rest is fully deserved.

Change "work" to "works" and add a comma after "basis".

Okay, I am now going to do something very stupid: argue grammar with a native speaker. Don't be too hard on me if this is completely wrong.

Isn't "work" the correct form in this case? I asked google:

"the team works hard" = 587 hits.
"the team work hard" = 7280 hits.

And according to this verb conjugation database, "they/we" (as in "the team") implies "work" without the -s.

[Tirian]

No hardness here. English is a whacked-out language even before you consider that British and American English have some pretty dramatic differences between them.

"Team" is a collective noun. In American English, those always take the singular verb form. Apparently, things are more confusing in England and they might take the plural form if the context indicates that you are really talking about the members of the team (as in "the team are fighting amongst themselves"), but you still use the singular form when you are talking about the team as a unified body.

I took a quick glance at the Google hits for "the team work hard" and quite a majority of them aren't pure forms. There are things like "People want to see the team work hard," "Will the team work hard?" and "Join the team, work hard!"

[elendiastarman]

not all native speakers are good at grammer...*sigh*
works makes more sense because "team" is singular, whereas work applies to plural entities...at least in this case...

and "the team work(s) hard" is wrong, it is "the team worked hard"
so you got grammatically incorrect websites...

Tirian's post is also correct...English is crazy...

[euler]

"worked" would refer to an action in the past, and although they have worked hard, their work is ongoing, so I chose the continuous present, "work".

A useful tip whenever there is any doubt over which conjugation to use it to replace the noun with a personal pronoun. In this case we might be tempted (as I was) to say say, "They work"; "works" is used in the singular third person: he/she/it.

However, it is not always that simple, as Tirian pointed out. As team is a collective noun then it should be used in the singular third person if it is operating in a unified sense.

For example, "The army is coming to town later" is correct when we refer to the arrival of a single collective unit. But, "The army are coming to town later" is correct if we are referring to separate units arriving.

So technically, "the team work hard" versus "the team works hard" is the difference between the efforts of individuals (work) and a collective gathering (works). There would be no question if we met in a physical location to complete the task, then it would be "the team works hard". But does the gathering in a virtual location such as this forum qualify?


Similarly I am not sure about the comma. The rule requires that a comma is used after a conjunction: and, but, or, ..., when it separates two independent clauses. In this instance the first clause talks about "an appreciation of the teams effort", the second clause talks about "agreeing that a rest is earned". However, a rest for whom? Does the second clause qualify as being independent, or is the ambiguity due to employing an ellipsis (with meaning implied)?


I don't know in either case. Certainly I can be a pedant when it comes to grammar, this is often due to the potential for ambiguity. So although a fascinating discussion - I am easily entertained - I don't think that either "error" introduces confusion or ambiguity to the meaning.

[xan]

I'll agree there are plenty of variations and exceptions even for "proper" English, but "team work hard" doesn't read well to me, though I can see how it might. I guess it depends on how you think of "team" as a unit or a collection. Just don't get started on "data" as a singular/plural noun ...

As for independent clauses, I thought having separate subjects and verbs was enough to make clauses independent.

[Ted]

I agree - everyone on the team works hard!

Congratulations on reaching 200 problems, especially since there are no low-quality ones among them!

I have probably cumulatively spent more hours enjoying these than any other endeavor in my life!

I also express my appreciation for the summer break. It will be my only chance to catch up, as I seldom average one solution a week,
with my minimal math skills and self-taught programming skills.